Our representative, Yeoh Li Tian lost his last two rounds to finish with 3.5 points. Did the mad fool have an effect on this results? Who can say?
The final rankings
Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Zone 3.3 Championship concluded
The Zone 3.3 Championship has ended and the champion is Vietnamese GM Nguyen Ngoc Truong Son. He won his last game while GM Wesley So could only draw against GM Cao Sang. Both will represent the zone in the coming World Cup in Tromso, Norway.
Our representative, Yeoh Li Tian lost his last two rounds to finish with 3.5 points. Did the mad fool have an effect on this results? Who can say?
The final rankings
Our representative, Yeoh Li Tian lost his last two rounds to finish with 3.5 points. Did the mad fool have an effect on this results? Who can say?
The final rankings
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31 comments:
Li Tian acquitted himself well and played to his rating - he still has a lot to learn but the experience has been good for him as the fight from experienced and professional players was, as he experienced at the Olynpiad too, at a different level - and he also gained a lot of admirers from amongst the participants.
His good results against many in the region has brought his game to the attention of many and they took him very seriously this time.
Of course Li Tian feels pressure and copes well but he is still a young kid so vicious and uncalled for attacks from Fool does not make it any easier and it is hard to understand why an adult with his own kid can behave like that.
WELLDONE Li Tian!!!! U r our Malaysian Chess Super Hero!!!
I would say Li Tian is the man of the moment and hopefully of the future as well. However, having played well against GM's and IM's, his very apparent weakness is dropping points to weaker players. I also read he was disturbed by Raymond Siew's comments during the Zonals. You can't stop people from commenting, but you have to control yourself or just don't read the comments. I read many anti-Carlsen comments during Tata Steel, but he still destroyed all opposition despite the negative environment. This is what Chin Seng can do more to ensure his son's further progress. I truly wish him well.
The fool is writting all these to keep Mark relevant to Malaysian Chess. Mark is just one of the many national juniors but can hardly be considered promising enough for senior level.
I suppose by Fool's logic, if you play in the National Juniors you can call yourself a National Junior
With due respect, there were no weak players in the zonals - ratings are not always the basis for strength especially when all playing were professionals and we are taking 2100+ and not 1900 mediocre. Please don't forget he is a 13 year old playing with pressure with every game and his mental strength is not in question but just imagine if someone quoting the FIDE General Secretary basically accuses a kid of game fixing with some syndicate of organisers, players, etc. Frankly it is ridiculous to make comparisons with the World No. 1, an adult and seasoned player, and this is exactly our Malaysian reality distortion problem - inability to have context and making worst to give opinions, even advice without knowledge or understanding.
Peter, I think you must be thinking the above remark was made by RS. That is very far from the truth. You must be aware Carlsen was very much a kid not so long ago. That he could brave a negative environment with unrelenting fortitude must be something to learn from. You are surely aware even the greatest golf player Tiger Woods also could not perform in the face of personal hardship, so I can imagine "little" Li Tian cannot do better. It is not "Malaysian reality distortion problem" but a recognizable but manageable problem which must be overcome towards becoming a GM, even if the player is Malaysian. Don't think Malaysians are all weaklings.
Anonymous,
I am sure the remark is not from Fixed Game Master either, nevertheless what Peter says is true. The Carlsen haters only surfaced very recently not when he was a kid the same age as Li Tian.
It is true that one should be able to ignore negativity directed at you and just do your own thing. But to say that a 13 year old boy should be able to ignore these type of attacks is not reasonable.
Jimmy, the person accompanying Li Tian obviously did not try to shield him from bad influences. Did he go to Philipines alone? Surely RS was not standing beside him and making snide remarks. That probably shows why Chin Seng has to do the necessary and that extends beyond the confines of chess knowledge.
Now we have an another 'Anonymous' giving advice to a parent without any knowledge or understanding of a situation or the competitive environment. I will not even begin to bother to explain the sacrifices and amount of effort made by so many parties for the young boy to be able to play. It is so easy to read a blog from the comfort of an armchair and instantly become an expert on all things based on what you are. And before that, the same or yet another 'Anonymous' that is referring to me not by name but as the accompanying person unable to shield from bad influences. He obviously can't differentiate between the tone and content of Fool's comments either. Sigh...
Peter, I think you imagine a lot from a simple remark I made. Frankly, I did not know you were the one entrusted with Li Tian's well-being in the Philipines. Were you? I would think his father/mother would have been a more appropriate "second" as obviously you were probably too busy with official duties there. A simple thing like preventing access to Raymond's blog would have been enough to shut out undue influence.While I appreciate the many sacrifices made by many parties, a very important aspect was overlooked and that oversight did not mean nothing was done for Li Tian, as you so energically pointed out. A zonal experience is very important to a young player and no excuse, however valid, could explain away how Raymond Siew could exert undue influence by blogging far away in Malaysia.
I am not RS and I must make this clear. If not I get a barrage of replies intended for him. This is just for discussion only and I mean no disrespect to anyone.
I think and I hope Li Tian has a playing strength in excess of 2300. By getting a result that "reflected" his current rating of 2270+ could be interpreted as a "bad" performance. This simply means either I have over-estimated his playing strength (which actually is 2270+),or he played badly. I have great faith in the Elo rating as a measure of playing ability.
By analogy, Hoe Yifan achieved a performance rating nearing 2700 at Tata Steel.Her current rating is just 2603 and more than 100 points below the average playing strength of the tournament. I reckon she is nearly 2700 strength currently and she just played at her "level", give or take 20 points maybe.
We must understand that currently nearly every Malaysian chess player is cheering Li Tian to achieve FGM.By simply "playing to his rating" is surely a big disappointment to me.
At this stage , Li Tian is still "experimenting" and can be expected to have a "bad" performance once in a while.
Hi Jimmy, Peter, Mr. Guna & dear friends,
1. Thanks for the kind words, encouragement, comments & advice. I appreciate.
2. To Mr. Anon(s), I will take your kind comments as good reference from a different perspective. Your friendly tone reflects your kind concern on tian. I Thank You.
3. And to be fair to Mr. Peter:
3.1 I applied to MCF on behalf of tian and we were ready to accompany tian if there is no other MAS players going there.
3.2 MCF official is kind to inform me that Peter may be there too for his duties.
3.3. Thus i let tian tumpang Peter, to save the cost & time of accompany parents.
3.4 I would say Peter has done much more than my request to ensure tian arrived & back safely.
3.5 The extras by Mr. Peter included assist in preparation, post mortum, introduced local friends to tian, buy free meals, .... etc.
3.6 Tian & I appreciated much.
4. About the attack & disturbance from the fool
4.1 The fool started to attack tian since 2011 when tian was 12.
4.2 at first tian found uneasy with the fabricated accusation by a man he used to call him 'uncle'
4.3 Truly it was not easy to make tian understand why the best defence is not to defend
4.4 I told tian to just learn from Sumant & LZR. Both were attacked and chose to stay cool and ignore, and even grow stronger.
4.5 Tian is still in the learning process.
4.6 I not really stop tian from reading as I think it may be impractical. FYI, the players in WYCO2011, ISTANBUL2012 read the articles as source of entertainment.
4.7 So if tian get disturbed due to the added dosage of venom, only me & tian to be blamed. Not others.
Regards
seng
Dear YCS,
1. You don't have to explain...99.9 % of chess community know and understand...(after all someone with lots of free time might went through it, line by line, word by word to find any area to cause future confusion).
2. Not easy to raise prodigy...any 12 years old parent that have genius kids that is ready for University education will tell that there is always fool that insist on the kids must went through normal education...just like every kids (hence, waste 6 years of kids precious time)...ignore them.
3. Still remember once Malaysia has this 7 years old kid that is able to solve complex A-level maths...some fool suggest he must go through normal school education like other normal kids...learning 1+2=3...No! that is not the way. Prodigy or genius is entitled for a special treatment (...Could feel it that this line might invite lotsa 'opinions')
i have read that along the way, during kid's short stint at the school...maybe out of boredom or carelessness that could be expect from a kid, a kid make some mistake in simple primary school math test...critique quickly jump and say "See, he cannot solve this primary school math! and this the fact!"...well, the fact that the kid is able to solve complex algebra or theorem is ofcourse, not mentioned....
4. Li Tian is destined for something big in chess, nobody knows what is it yet but general feeling, he will be at least a normal GM in few years time. He got all the right ingredient for success...time advantage, supporting parent, chess playing parent, supporting community and he also got villain he needs to beat via producing good result and be FGM...Heck, he might even got girlfriend or all those 'kakak angkat' to encourage her further, who know...:)
5. On your 4.1 point above, well, mine is even worst! i have attack Li Tian since 2008 when he was 9 (only on the chessboard lah...) but it always backfired...at the end it always 'splat' back on my face...hopefully someone learn from my experience...
6. YCS, YLT...take good care and have a happy CNY!
Uncle ILHAM
Apologized for grammar errors above..
Para 2. "any parent that have 12 years old genius kid"
Para 4. "to encourage him further"
Now I know where his confusion comes from. He thinks that the simple fact that Li Tian has 6 blacks means that the pairing is fixed. I guess in a way he is right. If you look at the round 9 pairing (http://chess-results.com/tnr90536.aspx?art=2&rd=9&lan=1&wi=984), you can see that in the top 10 boards, no 2 Philippino players are playing each other. Obviously this has been intentionally fixed to prevent match fixing. NOT to help Li Tian score more points. Clearly, you can also observe that Susanto Megaranto and Mark Paragua also have 6 whites. Wouldn't it be more suspicious that a player is given 6 whites than 6 blacks? After all, black is at a disadvantage. Or are you saying that the organizer knows that Li Tian can play better with black, and so give him black? That would be even more absurd. Anyway, based on the pairing rule that I just mentioned, Nelson probably has no other possible opponent other than Li Tian.
After all, there is a rule that disallows a player to be floated up by 1 point when there are players who have 0.5 points above him. So clearly, everyone knows the pairing was fixed. But is this enough to cause suspicion? I think anyone who knows anything about the rules of pairings and tournaments will know that it is very normal to prevent fellow countrymen from playing each other in the last round.
No, you are wrong. The truth is the last round was fixed for Li Tian. We choose someone who had to obey us and lose to Li Tian, otherwise he will never work in Malaysia again.
The plan had to be aborted because some fool got wind of it. How, I do not know. But if the plan was executed, he will create a shitstorm and that we cannot allow.
Therefore, we sent a secret signal to Li Tian that he had to lose the last round. Once again, the fool has thwarted our plans.
This is the simplest explanation rather than some ridiculous last round rule that Chess Ninja pointed out.
I have played in several Zonals and Asian Continentals and each time I played, I encountered the rule that "no player from the same country with 50% or more will not be paired against each other". This is why the pairings for the last round always take longer.
I played my first Zonals in 2003 with a 2300 rating and barely made a 2200 TPR.
CS, Li Tian's performance in such a tough event, especially for his age is very creditable and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I think IM Kevin Goh meant the opposite of what he said.
I can't believe you guys are still discussing this. It just means that the TROLL has succeeded in his aim in putting himself into your heads. What he says is rubbish, so it's really just a waste of time to talk about it.
Having said that, I think you guys are over-highlighting the young age of Li Tian (He's still very young. He's still thirteen. etc). I think the reason he stands out is because all the other juniors are so weak. Heck, he is probably the only one (unfortunately) who plays at Master Level, i.e. 2200+ among the under-18 players in Malaysia currently.
But go back another 10-15 years, we really did have a bunch of talented juniors. People like Mas, Yee Weng, Zi Jing, Jonathan etc were already playing at this level before they were 18. We can even argue that Mas was as good as Li Tian at 13. Mas and Jonathan even won the National Closed when they were 13! Yee Weng won when he was 14. (And Mas and Yee Weng even had the audacity to win it again the very next year when they were 14 and 15 respectively!!) And I haven't even mention Chern Ee, Ronnie, Tze Han or Nicholas.
So yes, time is running up for Li Tian. Do something or he will just end up like all these players. Not that they are THAT bad, the last I check most of them are still among the top ten in Malaysia. But if GM is the goal, then yes, something must be done eg. get Li Tian a professional trainer of at least IM level and 2400-2500 elo strength. Rememeber, genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration; talent alone is not enough. And yes, there is more than a grain of truth in "You are all washed out by 15!" Lol..
But I think Li Tian is the only one with such parental support, and his father was a national champion who understands what the game is really about. The support of a competent chess-playing parent is important because that's where the money comes from, at least initially. I agree that Li Tian cannot even begin to compare, achievement wise, with some of the bright sparks from China/Russia, etc. etc. but he is the best we have NOW. The rest did not make the grade to FGM, full stop!
Hi Ilham & IM Goh, Thanks! It shows good players always humble.
Thanks to explanation of Ninja Chess too. Honestly, it has been always not easy to understand the last round pairings.
Thanks to IM Jimmy as well, the fool should be able to accept your explanation.
anon feb 2 2013 at 5:01pm
Most people would think tt LTian is the best junior we have now given his age. But to say tt he has best parental support and advantage of having an NM as a father and he is the only GM material and "the rest do not make the grade".I think a sweeping statement like this is very damaging to aspiring young chess players and most unfair to other parents whio are also extremely supportive of their children's chess career.Malaysia chess is not all about LTian. Katak di bawah tempurong: open your eyes and try to see wider and further.
Sometimes I wonder if you understand English. "Did not make it" means something in the past. "Do not make the grade means presently not achieved yet". You ought to read properly before you begin to talk nonsense. I did not say parents are not supportive, but how many of them play chess well, or at all. Only Mas (correct me please) has a parent of chess ability. Can you name others I do not know?
When do you do when you see a mad man yelling and shouting at you in the street?
You ignore him.
If he gets violent, call the police or the ambulance.
Well no one is calling the police or ambulance at the moment. Everybody is just crowding around and watching...
Err.... Happy Chinese New Year to all my friends here - Malay, Chinese, Indian, "dan sebagainya".
I am just passing by, "crowding around" the area and "watching" the progress... Interesting I must say....
Chin Seng/Jimmy... No open house ah?
FGM never fails to make preposterous remarks. He says that the FIDE ratings of our top players are cooked. LOL. And he even says that our top IMs and FMs are scared. ROTFLMAO. But the truth of the matter is this: Rating points are hard-earned through playing and playing only. Our top players (IMs, FMs, NMs, and no Ms) are still playing and they are still maintaining their rating because they are playing well. The one who is actually scared is FGM coz he is not letting his son play in FIDE rated tourneys, he knows he will lose more rating points if he does. Mind you, our top player IM Mok has beaten GM Loek Van Wely, a participant in the latest elite Tatasteel Group A, among the other recent achievements of our top players. It is natural for him to be jealous of this kind of achievements but totally unbecoming of him to belittle our top players. There is something wrong with this man.
Heh, up there! No religion, politics and foul language (even if abbreviated) ;-)
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